Siditty: Angry & Black Since 1976 - Latest Comments in http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Black girl with long hair — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 02:48:00 -0000

hmm this is interesting. really really interesting. i think it helps to have a 'life partner' but that's as far as i've gotten in thinking about the whole marriage thing...

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Black girl with long hair — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 22:48:00 -0000

hmm this is interesting. really really interesting. i think it helps to have a 'life partner' but that's as far as i've gotten in thinking about the whole marriage thing...

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Ehav Ever — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 03:24:00 -0000

I think you are correct that it is an evolution in American social norms. I think this evolution is due to a number of circumstances which include media, changes in culture, the loss of cultural connectivness, etc.

For example, here in the Middle East even with the changes in social norms both Israelis and Arabs marry younger. Marriage here is a big thing. Most people here I meet are married in their early or mid 20's.

The places that are more western orientated, and less connected to their cultural family structures often marry a lot later. People connected to their family structure often marry a lot younger here.

It is like the old Middle Eastern saying goes, if you want to see great-grand children marry young. That may be the difference between the western focus where marriage, in some cases, is less about having children and continuing on a particular legacy, but more of an institution around the marriage itself.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Ehav Ever — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:24:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Beautifully.Conjured.Up — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:52:00 -0000

BTW, I gave you an award on my blog :)

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Beautifully.Conjured.Up — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:52:00 -0000

BTW, I gave you an award on my blog :)

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

MrsRony — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:57:00 -0000

Having been married almost 9 yrs I must say Im not real big on the institution. LOL I was also, to my parents horror, one of the few girls who never wanted to get married but wanted kids.

I do wish people were using as much caution to procreate as they are seeming to do with marriage. Men of all races I think go with whatever is required of them. If they can get away without marriage..so be it.

I think part of the decline of "marriage" is the fact that it is now okay for women to want and expect more from life. We encourage our girls to be independent and to be all they can be. Women now get a choice without all the stigma (stigma isnt totally gone). When you look at the couples who've been married 30+ yrs you see women who have sacrificed much and thought that the marriage was the pinnacle of their life. That is no longer acceptable for most of us.

We've been trained, as women, that we are supposed to want to be married and procreate. I think its wonderful that we are taking the time to evaluate that. The days of leaving your parents home to cleave to your man are over. I dont want my boy/girls even thinking about marriage until they are over 30. Marriage is no longer the highest bar we can obtain. Thank God!

Teen sex/pregnancy thing IMHO stems from bad parenting and over stimulation in America. These kids are craving something. Attention, love, desire to please. Teaching abstinence is a joke. No one has ever been able to keep kids from having sex but they have valued their quality of life and reputation and they used to be taught their worth as humans. That is rarely being done in this society.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

MrsRony — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:57:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

212542 — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 01:25:00 -0000

The decline IMO has to do with men generally refusing to marry. I believe women as a group still love the idea of marriage & children with a white picket fence.
I don't think men see the real benefits of marriage when it comes to them. Their thinking is usually 'if a divorce happens, how much money will I lose?'.
Throw it in the fact nowadays everyone is cohabiting. Back in day that was a no no unless you where married.
Unmarried men are getting all the perks a married man would get. So unless he's very religious why should men marry?

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

digitalcoyote — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 01:07:00 -0000

There are a few reasons I'm not in a big rush to get married.

I've noticed the people that push the hardest in this regard (IE telling me I need to "hurry up" and get hitched)are or were miserable in their marriages. The people with happier marriages don't say a word about it: they're content to enjoy their lives as I enjoy mine own. Their mindsets are also very different compared to the other group because they've said they were looking forward to their partnerships rather than the wedding.

I don't have children, so I have no need to secure their rights as heirs. Fuck chomping at the bit: my family has the bullhorn to my ear screaming for me to reproduce. Getting hitched would only serve to amplify that noise because babies would be the next logical thing to do.

A ring does not guarantee a man will keep it in his pants; same thing goes for women as well. It's the same risk as being single.

If something bad goes down, I want to retain the right to leave and sever ties instantly. There's an awful lot of damage that can be done to a person physically, mentally, spiritually, and financially while waiting for the courts to tell you it's okay to separate.

In that same vein, divorce and family law are seriously fucked up. I don't think I should be able to take half a man's stuff and keep him paying support indefinitely because I have a vagina. (This is extreme, but it's happening: http://www.timesonline.co.u... If there were children in the picture, I think they should be given to the parent who can best take care of them. Yes, the relationship between a mother and child is unique, but I shouldn't be put in a position where I could irreparably harm the child because I gave birth to it. Mom isn't always the best person to parent.

Ultimately, I don't want to feel trapped by a marriage or a family because I didn't give myself enough time to be myself and be comfortable in that. I think a lot of women rush in to it because we're told we can have it all. Sometimes, they've bitten off more than they can chew. Other times, they can't let go of who or what they used to be. I saw a woman on Supernanny that couldn't get over not being a cheerleader anymore. She hated her kids because of it (no more sylph-y teenage figure) and kept her old uniforms to relive her glory. I know people like that in real life, though extreme diets and Botox seem to be how they're going to relive their youth.

If I settle down, it'll be because I'm confident in my ability to be a good person to myself and a better one to my husband and whatever sprouts we bring in to this world.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

lormarie — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:34:00 -0000

Hate to say it but I think premarital sex killed marriage. The only reason people get married young is to have sex.--the lady

This is especially true among religious communities.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

lormarie — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:31:00 -0000

I don't think marriage is antiquated at all...not sure if it ever will be. I can't speak for others but I am very hesitant about marriage due to the "risk" of divorce and the problems that could lead to it. I think, what's the point of getting married when I KNOW there are certain instances where I'd divorce in a New York minute (infidelity). I'd say that infidelity is the primary reason I don't want to marry. I suspect others have the same fears which is why we see the recent stats. What will work for me is a happy dating life. Then again, there's the religious issue that still hangs over my head about dating instead of marriage....

So maybe it's fear that keeps people from marrying these days.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:37:00 -0000

Personally, it was more having to do with love than to do with economics.

But I do understand where the decline is coming from.

I would think that to a certain degree it would be someone's personal preference whether or not they get married.

Just because someone wants to have children, doesn't necessarily mean that marriage has to be. I'm certainly not being old fashioned at my particular age (43), but I'm seeing more people basically being content with being single and semi-attached (if that makes any sense) with children, as opposed to being married with children.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Winnowill — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:33:00 -0000

I know it is more often more comforting to go on anecdoctal evidence, and insist that the decline of traditional marriage has contributed to the social ills we seem to be experiencing at a disproportionate rate, like poverty, out of wedlock births, increasing crime, etc. Combine our non-empirical convictions with the lack of understanding of the difference between correlation and causation and basic statistical analyis, and it is easy to conclude that the erosion of "traditional" family structures has contributed to a contemporary social and moral decline.

However, one must look a lot deeper, including at the relationship between commerce and industry and the family, how governmental policies supported certan family structures and negatively impacted others, other social changes wrought by redefining the family, like laws to prevent and punish child abuse, domestic violence, child labor, and marital rape, as well as more women obtaining post-secondary education and entering the labor force, the greater access to and efficacy of birth control and family planning methods, and the transition from an more industrialized, mechanized labor force to a technologically based labor force. Some of these changes emerged as off-shoots of feminism, and many more emerged concurrently and were part of an integrated web of social movements.

In addition, with respect to religiosity, it did not so much as decline as to change forms, with the emergence of non-Western spiritual paths and new religious movements, which also challenged the ideas for the spiritual basis of traditional marriage. Such a complex institution cannot be viewed in a simplistic way, and certainly not without examining how the institution itself has evolved and been redefined over the centuries, not just since the '60's. If you really want to delve into this fascinating issue, with some facts to back up your pursuit, read "The Way We Never Were: American Families and the Nostalgia Trap" and "Marriage: A History", both by Stephanie Coontz. One of the most fascinating things about "Marriage: A History" is how it reveals that as marriage changed over time from a financial, economic and political transaction to one based on love and commitment, it ironically became weaker as a social institution. Great sociological studies with substantiated data that often flies in the face of conventional wisdom. Definitely worth checking out.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

American Black Chick in London — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:19:00 -0000

Well said brohammas!

After watching several of my older cousins have kids out wedlock (sometimes with multiple fathers), I must agree that marriage as an institution does seem to be in decline.

I know that the rise in feminisim sometimes get blamed for the breakdown of the 2 parent household...but I don't think that's it. I think folks now are willing to give up on marriage to easily. My mom's parents were married for over 50 years, until the day my grandfather died. My parents are still married and have been for over 35 years. Has it always been easy? Gosh no, but I learned watching my parents and grandparents over the years that it takes more than love for a marriage to succeed. It takes hard work and compromise, which I don't think are really emphasized enough when it comes to marriages now. I get the sense that when the going gets tough, too many people just give up and walk away.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

212542 — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:25:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

digitalcoyote — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:07:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Beautifully.Conjured.Up — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:43:00 -0000

Our whole ideology of what the "norm" is has changed, hence a plethora of "standards" have changed also.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

lormarie — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:34:00 -0000

Hate to say it but I think premarital sex killed marriage. The only reason people get married young is to have sex.--the lady

This is especially true among religious communities.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

lormarie — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:31:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:37:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Winnowill — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:33:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Anonymous — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:32:00 -0000

I guess in the black community marriage isn't seen as a priority because so many of us put the cart before the hoarse anyway. ALot of black women get pregnant before they even move in with a guy, or even know the guy well enough to know he probably is not going to be a good father. Black men and women need to change this, because it reflects very badly on our communities. Usually, and this is from my own personal observation, the guy does not marry the baby mama. In all honesty this seems to be mostly a problem in our community. I also do not condone getting married just because you should be married by a certain age, unless maybe you want kids. BUt times are changing, and the family dynamic will never be the same. It would be nice to have both parents in the home, but not if the parens are all screwed up creating more dysfunctional human beings to deal with in this crazy world.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

American Black Chick in London — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:19:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2009/03/pregnancy-and-marriage.html

Sandra — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:40:00 -0000

When they say that 70% of black women are single does that include women in long-term relationships who are not married?