Siditty: Angry & Black Since 1976 - Latest Comments in http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Debbie — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:20:00 -0000

Yes, I am implying that many black Americans do not know other people's cultures...note 'a lot', i didn't say all.

What I am not implying though is that racism only occurred during slavery. I think I have acknowledged, on your own blog, in a post about your experience of racism in school, that the American experience regarding race relations is quite unique. My only concern is that i believe there may be some who think that just because someone isn't from the US they don't know what it is to be looked down on because of race. Yes Jamaica is predominantly black, and people would assume that this would make things easier for blacks here. But this is a country where importation of skin bleaching creams is illegal, yet it is sold openly on the streets of the capital city, with people risking skin cancer to look like Michael Jackson. This is also a country where the more Caucasian you look, the more likely you are to get certain jobs. Every country that ever had slavery still have deep scars from the experience, that's all i want acknowledged.

For the record, I don't watch BET, I hardly think most blacks would think the content represents them.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Debbie — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 04:20:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Siditty — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:32:00 -0000

What you are saying implies that black americans don't know about other cultures. My problem with people like you is that you believe that racism began and ended with slavery in America. Slavery ended in America after Jamaica, and after that we had Jim Crowe until the 1960s. No we aren't the only oppressed people in this history, but it irks me to no end that people come here to tell me that I am beneath them because they watched BET and determined it is a documentary of the plight and current situation of black people in America.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Siditty — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:32:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Debbie — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:04:00 -0000

Didn't read the entire thread of comments before commenting so i hope what i am saying now hasn't already been settled. I get the idea that many of those commenting here have the idea that blacks who aren't born in the US don't understand racism and have never been oppressed because of their race. For example, that comment that obama and colin powell are 'better than former slaves'. But that's not true because many, in fact most, non-african americans know about slavery and were affected by it in some way or have slave ancestors. colin powell for example has Jamaican parents, Slavery existed in Jamaica until it was abolished in 1838 or thereabouts, i know this because i'm Jamaican. I think that's the mistake a lot of black americans make, thinking their history was more oppressive than other blacks'

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Debbie — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 03:04:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Grata — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 03:20:00 -0000

"No one has denied that non Americans did not have an influence on the civil rights movement, but there is no need to downplay the American influence either".

Your statements about immigrants gaining from American black achievement don't seem to recognize their own contributions.

"In terms of the African American exodus to Ghana, it is estimated that only 5,000 African Americans live in Ghana".

You call 5000 only? Isn't that testament to the fact that atleast some African governments have reached out and some AAs have responded? So all in all its not just Black Americans that have created openings for other blacks.

"and it is even more insulting coming from someone who is of the same hue as me, because in reality, until you open your mouth, those of other races will see you, like they see us "regular old American" blacks".

Africans raised in Africa never forget who they are to non Africans. So they don't need to be reminded that they are black. That seems to be a concern more for AAs.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Grata — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 02:45:00 -0000

"In regards to Ghana, isn't it only recently they have welcomed African Americans to come "home", and remember that invite wasn't well known here. Our media doesn't cover such things as it is more European and white centered".

Overtures towards African Americans go way back into the the 60s. Infact they ran parallel with the Civil Rights movement. There was an OAU proposal for reparations to Africans and African Americans, a formal apology for slavery to Africans and African Americans and colonialism. You don't hear much about it. Britain's recent apology did have a history of pressure from the Africans. There were West Indians that played a crucial role in the independence of African Nations and the development of Pan African Thought. People tend to think that most black progress was achieved with the Civil Rights movement and this is not true.
There is alot of uncovered back and forth between the two groups.
This whole Civil Rights movement helping immigrants sounds like the other non American blacks are just takers and did little to further the black cause. This is a part of Black History that is not told. SO be careful with the "our struggles benefitted you guys" line.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Grata — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 02:36:00 -0000

""Give Us Free" is in reference to Amistad the movie. Not to Africans in general".

Yeah, just like Shirley Q represents that rare ghetto sterotypical AA woman.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Siditty — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:55:00 -0000

Grata,

The reason this is being bought up over and over again, is because it seems that people love to say really condescending things about AAs and start in on how they perceive us to be, over and over again on various blogs, and either others jump in and agree or remain silent. So yeah I call it out now. I don't feel it is necessary to tear down another group of people to make myself feel better but obviously other people do.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Grata — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:31:00 -0000

"That is what I don't get, I feel the anger is from white guilt, not actually from black people themselves. Also if we are angry is that anger not justified?"

Ofcourse the anger is justified, Its a catch 22.

"Do those negative experiences with AA's represent all AA's has every single AA treated you that way?"

The negative experiences don't reflect on all AAs but like you keep blogging on this subject, If you experience the same behaior over and over again your opinions on a group of people get formed. And yes I have experienced one on one more negative experiences than good ones and that is why I am cautious on interracting on a one on one level. I do avoid close relatives that do the same thing. With AAs I have felt the anger and animosity so real to be able to sense it a mile away. After being in blogosphere for long one can attach the mindsets to those angry reactions therefore making one even more careful.

So when you see people like Africans being cautious, sometimes its not the media but rather their experiences.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Grata — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 23:20:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Grata — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:45:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Grata — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:36:00 -0000

""Give Us Free" is in reference to Amistad the movie. Not to Africans in general".

Yeah, just like Shirley Q represents that rare ghetto sterotypical AA woman.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Siditty — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:55:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Grata — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:31:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Siditty — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:37:00 -0000

you mentioned it..  If not for that movement, the immigrants who feel the need to stereotype and insult us, wouldn't be here if it wasn't for us lazy, ungrateful american blacks. I think sometimes folks forget that.  I simply addressed it. I am not downplaying anything. And if you can point out where or how I downplayed it. I'd be most pleased to take it back and apologise.

Again you forget to mention I am not mentioning ALL immigrants, but there seems to be a trend for SOME, which is who I am mentioning in the quote you just provided who feel that american blacks in general are lazy and ungrateful.

was the 'The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965' born out of the civil rights movement?

YES. It was actually seen as a symbolic act to extend civil rights sentiments globally. Please go Here, here.

It seems you are largely doing a lot of downplaying and then turning around and accuse me of it. Again, point out where I have done so and I'll correct it.

I am not downplaying anything. My point is this, if people feel the need to come to America and tell me how I am as a black person is, or generalize and stereotype me, I have no need to associate with them. To me it is insulting for people to come here and accuse me of being a criminal, uneducated, and everything else under the sun, and it is even more insulting coming from someone who is of the same hue as me, because in reality, until you open your mouth, those of other races will see you, like they see us "regular old American" blacks.

The civil rights movement here in America was largely led by African Americans. Yes, they had influences from those outside the States, but for the most part, it was an American thing. People tend to fight for their own personal interests do they not?

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:54:00 -0000

Siddity.
you mentioned it..

If not for that movement, the immigrants who feel the need to stereotype and insult us, wouldn't be here if it wasn't for us lazy, ungrateful american blacks. I think sometimes folks forget that.

I simply addressed it. I am not downplaying anything. And if you can point out where or how I downplayed it. I'd be most pleased to take it back and apologise.

was the 'The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965' born out of the civil rights movement?

I only mentioned pan africanilism as a part of what Nkrumah was involved in. It was not the only leading influence here.

It was not the only movement and it was not the only interaction that AFrican' have with the civil rights movement and civil rights leaders.

It seems you are largely doing a lot of downplaying and then turning around and accuse me of it.
Again, point out where I have done so and I'll correct it.

I am very aware of the work of civil rights leaders... no one could have done more than the very people who lived under Jim Crow, than African Americans.. you were living it in the disapora. we were living it back home.

once again, I'll reiterate, I simply pointed out that we weren't just sitting around looking at our own people in the disapora from afar..
We weren't just sitting there watching you be brutalised. We joined in, we lended assistance, we lended an ear and we tried to provide safe havens even before we had sorted out the mess which we rested from the colonilials.

That alone is my point. I wish you would read it like that.

how could I ever, even begin to imply that the some AFricans, many of who were still living under colonial rule whilst you had gained some (not all) civil liberties were instrumental in liberating you.
i didn't say that. I didn't imply that and if you have read it as that, then I implore you to look at it in a different manner.

-soul

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Siditty — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:21:00 -0000

unfortunately, this is simply not true. Africans have been travelling and studying in the USA from way back, the 20's , the 30's, the 40's. We've been doing so since even before our own independence. And actually before slavery.

Prior to 1965 there were quotas in place that favored countries in the Western Hemisphere. The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 got rid of the preference for European Countries vs. those countries from the Eastern Hemisphere. So yes even though prior to 1965 there were immigrants from Africa coming here, this Act allowed for MORE immigrants from Africa and Asia to enter the country.

In terms of the African American exodus to Ghana, it is estimated that only 5,000 African Americans live in Ghana.

Again when you mention the civil rights, you neglect to mention the role that many Africans held in not only inspiring civil rights leaders like WB Dubois, MLK, Malcolm X amongst others.. but also in helping them formulate plans of action and organisation.

No one even mentioned this, no one is acknowledging that the pan africanism did not assist in the Civil Rights movement. I would say that the NOI and other groups (not the new NOU, but old school, Elijjah Muhammad, NOI) is very heavily influenced by pan africanism. But if you look at the leaders as well know them of this movement, I would say many were American. No one has denied that non Americans did not have an influence on the civil rights movement, but there is no need to downplay the American influence either.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Soul — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:05:00 -0000

Hi siddity..
I'm going to address 2 things first using Ghana as an example.

Firstly, Kwame Nkrumah made an offer in the late 50's early 60's for Africans in the diaspora to come home, many African Americnas did, and many in the civil rights movement actually lived in ghana.

you said:
When I mention the civil rights movement, I am looking at those who like to label us all as lazy, unmotivated, and criminally minded, and look at immigration policies prior to the civil rights movement. If not for that movement, the immigrants who feel the need to stereotype and insult us, wouldn't be here if it wasn't for us lazy, ungrateful american blacks. I think sometimes folks forget that.

unfortunately, this is simply not true. Africans have been travelling and studying in the USA from way back, the 20's , the 30's, the 40's. We've been doing so since even before our own independence. And actually before slavery.

Again when you mention the civil rights, you neglect to mention the role that many Africans held in not only inspiring civil rights leaders like WB Dubois, MLK, Malcolm X amongst others.. but also in helping them formulate plans of action and organisation.

Again, I'll use Ghana and Kwame Nkrumah as an example.

Kwame Nkrumah (Ghana's first indigenous post colonialism president) got his first degree in University of Pennsylvania in the 1930's (or late 20s). (he also got degrees from london at the london school of economics amongst others)
He was not unique. Many AFrican's and Europeans studied in universities abroad at the time. (remember, universities were not 2 a penny in those days, like they are now) LSE, Oxford, Harvard.. these were some of the most recognised institutes of higher learning and that's where people all over the world went.

Ghana was the first nation to gain indepence from colonial rule in 1957. Let's remember this, we weren't settling our own affairs in most African countries until the 1960's!. And even then and till now we still haven't been able to unravel the gross and rampant mongrelisation of the continent that the colonials left behind. They created and still maintain chaos!. (bit I digress).

anyway, Kwame invited those who were willing to come home (he was a pan-Africanist afterall).
It was because of him that W.E.B Dubois moved to live in Ghana.

Malcolm X, Martin Luther King all consulted with him and spent time in Ghana, as well as in other African countries and amongst other African movement leaders who were just getting to grips with evicting the colonials from our land.
African grass roots and pan-africanism became the movement for Africans at home and in every single diaspora.

Why are they not teaching this more..I don't know?

I thought it was common knowledge that the civil rights movement got it's influence from pan africanism and liased closely with these new African movements founded by Azikiwe, Awolowo, Garvey (west Indian), Nkrumah, Julius Nyerere, patrice Lamumba.. e.t.c.,

Siddity, Ghana has the largest African American community in Africa (probable bar liberia) But then Liberia is a whole nother issue.

I could go on Siddity. But the information is there... we largely seem to have forgotten it, whilst we are being pitted against each other, for the role of who is supposed to be the 'noble savage'.

I'm sorry, i disagree that 'white people think we are better than you'.
Look at how the white main media portray us Africans.
And when they are not being patronising, look at how we are fetisized. Their 'liking' is largely patronising and simply two-faced. nobody who genuinely likes you, will say they like you because 'you are better than that other person'.. what does that have to do with you? nothing.
I don't believe that crap and I don't buy it.

Many see us as 'starving, broken, Aids infected, disease ridden, savages. If we are not that... then we are the 'noble negros' the magic negroes who have no need for money and only believe in honour, we place no value on material things and live off the earth with no desire for materialistic endeavours... What a load of crap lol
Does this sound familiar to you?. Does it remind you of how the Native Americans were portrayed?.. or how many white young people who have taken a class on 'African American Studies' talk about hte oog old days when African Americans were simply 'honorable' and fought for a cause.

It's game.. it's talk and it's divisive. i've said it time without number, many white people simply set one group against the other.

I stopped blogging but I'll temp. give myself the name I used to go by.. which is
'soul.

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Siditty — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:37:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:54:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Siditty — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:21:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Soul — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:05:00 -0000

Re: http://siditty.blogspot.com/2008/08/just-because-we-share-complexion-does.html

Siditty — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:55:00 -0000

I wasn't really aware of the divisions until I read that high income African-americans can't hire nannys of any color, and non-American blacks were unwilling to work for an African American family. I've also befriended a few women from various backgrounds (Ehtiopian, Haitian, and Barbados) who confirm the desire Afro immigrants have to distance themselves from us African Americans.

There is a lot of animosity towards american blacks who have made it, not just from immigrants, but from other african americans. It is like the worst of the worst is to get out of poverty or the ghetto, or worse yet, to have never lived there.

-------

You know, every single time someone raises this issue, the stereotyping of us Africans flies just as far out of your mouths as the very people you accuse of stereotyping you?.

It seems to go both ways.

Why would you expect to be treated any differently or put on a pedestal when you travel through Africa? Are you not black like me?.  Why should I not treat you like I treat everyone else?. why do you want special treatment? It's bad enough that white people want and expect it.

I think what she is saying, is that there is a difference in treatment between how you treat white americans vs. black americans. I once knew a woman from the Caribbean who told me she hated having black customers at the hotel she worked at, because they didn't tip like the white people. I then asked her could it be she treated them differently than she did the white people, her response to that was of course they were treated better, they usually tipped better, so she put more emphasize on providing service to them. Seems to be a vicious cycle doesn't it? I hear that rationale a lot with waiters of all hues here in America too.

So some bad Africans berate you and are ignorant.. so what?.  Do you think there aren't any bad americans who berate africans and are ignorant?. 

Has this not been said in this whole conversation?

-------

You talk of civil rights and what opportunities it gave... okay I urge you to go and look through the history of the UN and see which countries stood up for the plight of African Americans and requested damn near demanded that they be treated equally. And all this, taking place just some of us Africans just got our own independece in the late 50's and early 60's. It's notlike we were living free in our own countries. 

When I mention the civil rights movement, I am looking at those who like to label us all as lazy, unmotivated, and criminally minded, and look at immigration policies prior to the civil rights movement. If not for that movement, the immigrants who feel the need to stereotype and insult us, wouldn't be here if it wasn't for us lazy, ungrateful american blacks. I think sometimes folks forget that.

Even in your comedy, you make fun of us, 'I want 'alf eddie'! 'give us our free' e.t.c. So what?. We 'chest' it. Take it and keep it moving.  

"Give Us Free" is in reference to Amistad the movie. Not to Africans in general.

I was friends with an African American woman, who noticed I had flat feet, she couldn't get over it and kept going on about my African feet. When I told her that our mutual African American friend also had flat feet.. it didn't register.  She actually came to me the next day and said.. 'oh I told my mom about your African feet.. I've never seen an Africans foot before, so that's how y'all feet are?' 

You ran into an ignorant woman. People of any race or nationality can have flat feet. Hell I have flat feet and I have never set foot in Africa.

I've been friends with African Americans who couldn't believe that I didn't live in a tree or play with monkeys who couldn't believe that we had banks, TV's! companies, universities back home.

Again ignorance. But remember this ignorance is not limited to African Americans, and in this country, that same ignorance is spread to African Americans from whites, and others who have lived in this country all their lives.

In matter of fact white people think that you guys are way better than us, as you don't take "hand outs" like we apparently all do.

In regards to Ghana, isn't it only recently they have welcomed African Americans to come "home", and remember that invite wasn't well known here. Our media doesn't cover such things as it is more European and white centered.

I could give a rats ass what white people say. In general, white people are always playing some divisionary bollocks tactic amongst us. They get to choose who becomes the 'special negro' and we keep buying it.

Very true, and many people do buy it, and that is the core issue at hand.

I've had african men say on a date with me... 'oh Black women don't do it like white women, so I'm just giving you a chance'. lol

I would have cursed that man out.

I will not apologise for any other African who has behaved negatively. Just as I do not expect you to apologise for any other African American. 

I don't think anyone has done nothing should apologize, I just want to put it out there it happens. I was raised as a child that black people need to stick together, but I know that, at least here in America it is not the case, the issue is the division of blacks by class and by nationality.

However, if you feel you must judge all Africans by the standard of a few.. then cool. more power to you.

I don't think I do that, I would hope if anything people would have open conversation about it.